Question:
Mike Tyson? A sad tell to a promising career or not?
Devon P
2007-12-30 12:20:23 UTC
Mike Tyson a destructive fighter in the history of Heavyweight boxing. Started his career under a great management and training camp. Only to end after 1988 and deteriate a once proven to be promising fighter to a mere disgrace by many in the boxing community. His staff started with D Amato, Rooney, Atlas, Cayton, Jacobs. Ending with a who's of who in charge of him. His former wife destroyed him personally, and King stripped him financially. I know Tyson had problems before all this took place but he was better managed and people cared for him. My question is: Would his career been a lot better if he would have kept the right people in his corner for his career or would it still play out to where it is now with his life?
Seventeen answers:
dolphin
2007-12-30 15:10:05 UTC
Cus D'amato himself would answer the question yes.



He certainly advised Rooney to keep Tyson in the gym, where he would stay out of trouble.



If Rooney had been able to do that, Tyson might never had lost a fight. Rooney seemed to be there for all the right reasons, and still insists he cares about Tyson and would work in his corner today.



D'Amato knew Tyson, and Tyson looked up to him, and to everyone else in the D'Amato camp.



Some people need ongoing guidance to succeed, and Tyson never had the day to day skills and self discipline or respect to do the routine of a regular life. He needed lots of support.



D'Amato also warned Tyson about King, and all the others waiting to cash in on his potential.



If only Tyson had stayed this course.





However.....



Someone else has a very different opinion. He would answer your question with a no.



He also worked with Tyson, and is well respected in boxing.



That person is Teddy Atlas.



And his theory is different. He believes that everyone lied to Tyson, including D'Amato.



"Our walls were plenty dirty," says Teddy Atlas, who first trained Tyson under D'Amato. "If there's a leak in the roof, you know, the spill doesn't just stay in the kitchen."



"You have to believe in your teachers," Atlas says. "All Mike's teachers turned out to be liars. It reaffirmed to him that he wasn't worth anything."



Instead of disciplining Tyson, Atlas says, D'Amato often overlooked Tyson's mistakes, snuck him into the gym at night and sacrificed his morals to fulfill his last selfish dream before his looming death: having the youngest heavyweight champ, even if it meant the champ couldn't control his emotions or his behavior, and struggled with self-confidence and depression.



When Tyson signed with King, left King, then came back to King after serving three years in an Indiana prison for a rape conviction he still adamantly denies, Atlas wasn't surprised.



In part, Atlas says, Tyson was always fascinated by King's aura, his street charisma, and the way he could talk and appeal to black fighters. But Tyson's decision to keep coming back to King is based on something different -- namely, Tyson's fear of confronting himself.



If Atlas is right, it would not matter if Rooney, D'Amato, or anyone else stayed in Tyson's corner. The stage was set, the characters cast, the play written. Tyson's fate was in his own hands, with the libretto a tragedy rather than a romance.



Tyson had too much baggage from his troubled past to face, and that kept coming back to destroy his success.



If Tyson could have stayed in mental and physical shape, he might have been unbeatable in his era.



Instead, he was already beaten by a childhood plagued with horrors.



Douglas was tough to beat, but he fought an out of shape Tyson who was knocked down in training camp. We will never know what might have happened if Tyson was not out partying instead of training. (Not to take anything away from Douglas, as he fought a classic fight.



Tyson now has a friend in George Foreman, who has offered to help him make a comeback.



With Foreman on board as a supporter, and Rooney back in the corner, Tyson would have a good psychological foundation, and they would get him (finally) back in shape. That hasn't happened since 1988.



However, if Atlas is right, it will never happen. The real competition is still going on in Tyson's head.



And Atlas should know Tyson as well as anyone.
voneric1477
2007-12-30 12:44:51 UTC
he had every chance to have the right people in his corner but chose to take the fast life ..... i think the same scenario plays out with Tyson no matter who is in his corner, maybe just take a little longer... Even when Cus was there he was getting into to trouble but at least he trained, so maybe he would trained better and maybe won a few more fights but the outside problems would still be there with the Law.... but no matter what you feel about him he is a Legend and for a 10 year stretch he had every heavyweight in the world afraid of him and was pretty much unbeatable.... sad story i know because there has never been a boxer or athlete that went to the very top in fame money and titles and fall all the way down to rock bottom like Tyson has .... and the worse part is because of his fame all of his problems have been broadcast to the public like some sort of soap opera for about 20 years
2007-12-30 12:39:47 UTC
Yeah it was incredible to see this kid KO top fighters so fast. It's hard to say whether the right people would have changed how the events in his life played, because Tyson always was a firecracker ready to go off. Cus probably just delayed the the fuse from being lit. I don't think it would have mattered ultimately. Some guys just don't learn from others mistakes and Tyson is really a live for the day not for tomorrow kind of guy. At least we still have the highlights to watch.
kelticnight2004
2007-12-30 14:49:55 UTC
Iron Mike was a very tough fighter who got the most out of his ability.In the end he was not as tough as Hollyfield.If you want anything in boxing you must play ball with with King.In the end he was a medium rated champion who made lots of money.The rest of the story is unfortunate and I have a feeling the worst is yet to come,but I also feel strongly that in the long run Mike will learn from his errors in life and do a lot of good by working with kids.I sincerely hope that the good he wanted to do early in his career will happen.I have a strong feeling that the true Mike Tyson will redeem himself and do a lot of good with his life.I really hope I am right.
2007-12-30 15:12:23 UTC
Those right people you are talking about enabled Mike to get away with his recidivistic behavior all along because they saw him as a meal ticket. Listen to Tony Atlas talk about Tyson and you'll learn that Mike was allowed entitlements by those very same handlers, including the cover up of an attempted rape.



I remember Tyson bawling his head off after knocking a fellow amateur cold, and Atlas was there telling him it was ok. I hold the opinion that Tyson initially didn't want to hurt people but was forced to do it, conditioned to like it, Once they made the monster, that monster fired them, they fled to the hills blaming Robin Givens and Don King for the what they created. Larry Holmes spotted it first, and everyone thought the Easton Assassin was simply being sour grapes. But Holmes grew up just like Tyson. The difference was that Larry Holmes had people that were helping him long before he came to be a fighter, and Holmes clung to them to help him along when he became famous. Holmes knew the signs, and that was while the D'Amato gang were still in control of Tyson.



"He'll be dead or in jail in 5 years."



Larry was right. And the "thug" that was Mike Tyson was created by D'Amato and that gang in the hopes of making a lot of money.





****Rebop****



How does that square with the attempted rape? Mike tried to rape a little girl, and Atlas went to put a bullet in Tyson's brainpan. Cus stopped him from doing that and covered it up. Atlas tells that story, and goes on to mention how similar stuff was covered up. That's enabling behavior, with dollar signs being the culprit. I've also seen video of Tyson at the D'Amato dinner table, with good old misogynist Cus telling Mike how bad women are, how they are up to no good and not to be trusted...AT THE FREAKIN' DINNER TABLE like it's nothing. Good old Mike learned that lesson well.
tim851
2007-12-30 16:34:26 UTC
No. It was just a matter of time.



Mike Tyson is clearly one of the "not so bright" people. Combining a small intellect like his with the fame and money he got will ALWAYS end in desaster. Add to that the "U da man" mentality in professional boxing, where half of the guys consider themselves to be demi-gods and get constant approval of their posse and you realize, that Tyson was doomed from the beginning.
2007-12-30 20:47:29 UTC
Excellent Question Devon...and this time, you are right & elmer....well ?....let's just say I knew some Detectives from NYC & from Albany, NY.----Some knew Tyson from his days @ Spofford Juvi Detention Center in the Bronx & others knew Mike a little later from his Catskill days with Cus.---One of these Detectives told a story how a 10 year old Mike lunged over a desk & tried to choke a psychologist @ Spofford because the guy had called him Mike Tyson. Even at 10..it took a couple of strong guys to pull Mike away. After the psychologist retained his composure, he asked Mike why he had tried to choke him ? --Mike replied that he only lets people call him or introduce him by first first name so if the Police ever asked about him on the street.....all anybody could tell them was that they only knew him by his first name. I related this war story to illustrate how Mike was a " thug " ( as elmer called him ) well before he met Cus-------------------On the other hand, the Albany Detective ( who once took me to watch Mike spar as an amateur ) knew Mike & told me that Cus & his wife had literally adopted Mike who really cared for them as much as they did for him. At that time, Mike regarded Cus' wife as a second mother & Mike really enjoyed living in the Catskills instead of Bed-Sty.-I was also told that another Detective had introduced Cus to Mike when Mike was about 11-12 & Cus immediately recognized that Mike would someday be Heavyweight Champ. Mike was already so wild that, at that time, he could only sometimes be controlled by a stern, caring Cus. When he lived with Cus, Mike loved ice cream & would sometimes binge on ice cream just prior to an amateur fight .The only person that could get that ice cream away from Mike was Cus.--------Rooney, Atlas & Cayton also had a lot of regard for Mike & also had a lessor degree of control over him. ----Mike was a beast before he came to Cus . Under Cus' guidance, the beast in Mike was more controlled & directed into the ring .Mike was groomed to be a Champ, however, Cus passed away before Mike ever reached his true potential. . Cus did want Mike to be Champ, but to say that Cus regarded Mike as a meal ticket is just not true. Cus had already managed Torres & Patterson to the Championship & had saved more than enough money to live in his Catskill home. Cus was genuinely excited, not because he viewed Mike as a moneymaking opportunity, but because he saw that he would once again be able to mold another Heavyweight Champion.... With the passing of Cus; the ability to control Mike was lost & he turned away from Atlas, Rooney & Cayton and, foolishly, went with Don King who smiled, hugged Mike with one arm as he snaked the other arm around Mike & picked his pocket.----Mike is a real tragedy.....not only for what his life has become.......but even more for what it could have been.
Frank P
2007-12-30 13:24:20 UTC
I think he had the most promising start in history. I mean 19 straight KO's beating Holmes in 4(even tho he was shot he was impressive) beating spinks in 91 seconds. He had the most potential ive ever seen. It would have been great if he stayed the way he was and fougth holyfield, lewis, and bowe, all in their primes all hungry, i think that he would have beating all of them and he would have been one of the best heavyweights up their with ali, louis, and marciano, he could have been great but you cant look back now.
Stan Gemini
2007-12-30 12:24:16 UTC
In my opinion heavyweight boxing died with his career, i remember watching a Tyson compilation on ESPN classic and he had the potential to be the best ever
tarheelsjordan
2007-12-31 09:11:33 UTC
Well, honestly if he did have someone to watch his every move and tell him what to do, he would have been alright, and been a great boxer. However, Tyson is a human being, and he has his own thoughts. No one could control Tyson, he even would have disobeyed D'Amato eventually. Just one of those things.
toughguy2
2007-12-31 06:09:56 UTC
Good question and yes I believe if he had kept the right people in his corner, he would have been much better off without a doubt. Robin Givens was a huge mistake and she insulted him right there on television for the whole world to see. Then of course, King took him to the cleaners financially along with Mike's own inability to handle his money wisely. If you watch fight films of Mike early in his career, he was very hard to hit, came in at more of a crouch and was mentally and physically focused for all of his fights. Then after all the firings and the death of Gus D'Amato who was certainly a father figure to him, his career took a turn for the worse as he started fighting more straight up, became easier to hit and suddenly beatable. After his loss to Buster Douglas, he seemed to lose all confidence and seemed to be fighting just out of anger with no self control as is witnessed in several of his fights and Mike was just not the same fighter anymore. He caused a lot of his own problems of course and made some bad decisions certainly. You could almost say his career consists of the great early career when he was unbeatable with great trainers, managers and people who really cared for him and the second career when people began using him, the mental breakdowns, and strange behavior along with losses to fighters he had no business losing to. Yes his story is a sad one indeed.
2007-12-31 01:22:29 UTC
I can't believe the excuses some of these people are making for Tyson's behavior. Nobody was responsible for the choices Mike made but Mike. Cus, King, Givens or Desiree Washington were just people, Mike chose to act in the manner he did, and Clayton, Jacobs, or anyone else who interacted with Mike could never make him do anything he didn't want to do. This web sight automatically deletes any subject matter that doesn't down play the fact that Mike was a disgrace to the heavyweight title, but I will not be party to this drivel.



Any attempts to compare Tyson to the all time greats will always run up against the truth. Guys like Jack Johnson, Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali impacted on the ills of society in a positive manner respective to their era's. Johnson fought the racial bigotry of his day with the tools God gave him. Joe Louis fought the fascism of Nazi Germany as a soldier and in the ring as the single greatest propaganda tool in the history of media with Schemling as the Nazi poster boy. Muhammad Ali spoke for millions during the civil rights era. What they did outside the ring counted as much for their greatness as the skill they showed in the ring.



Tyson's behavior did the reverse for him, and regardless of his accomplishments in the ring, outside it he was a disgrace. Tyson doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the top twenty five heavy weights all time, he was a degenerate and violent criminal. His boxing career was one of the most successful in the history of the sport because of the brilliance of his early handlers and their marketing skills. Being the youngest heavyweight champ in the history of the division is no small thing, but Tyson as a man inspires disgust and pity, no legacy for a great champion. Mike's career fulfilled it's promise, but he failed as a man. There is no excuse for rape, women throw themselves at the heavyweight champion of the world, Mike cannot blame anyone for his behavior but himself. Those of you who make excuses for his self destructive tendencies or his criminal acts are kidding yourselves.



There is nothing sad about Mike Tyson, other than the fact that he lacked the character to truly to justice to the blessings God gave him in his life. Claiming Robin Givens "destroyed" Mike is a bit much, women do what men allow, no more or less. No man of character can be destroyed by a woman, and violence against women is pretty much beneath most decent men. Anyone who has ever been married knows marriage has it's moments, but beating the crap out of your wife has never been an act that is condoned in any circles, no matter what she does.



His boxing career was about as good as a heavyweight can have, his personal life appeared on the surface to be a disaster, and the media most likely made the reality seem even worse. Still, blaming anyone other then Mike is simply unjust, a man is responsible for his own actions. In life you reap what you sow, and nobody ever really gets away with anything they do. You can't undo things once you do them either, they are a part of your legacy, pro or con.



Odds are Yahoo answers will delete this answer too, they always do when I write about Mike, but I have to call it like it was. Mike was sad, not his career and he disgraced the title he won in the ring with his behavior outside the ring.
2007-12-31 01:13:06 UTC
I think if you watch the old fights, the Tyson that is fighting Berbick and Spinks is not the same Tyson that fought Holyfield and the guys later in his career. So yes, he could have been a lot better. That's the trick though in life, and that goes for almost everybody. You got to kill your demons before they kill you.
2007-12-31 00:57:12 UTC
Cus D Amato died, it would be a bit morbid having a dead man in your corner.



Fact of the matter is, Tyson had already been through the legal system before he ever laced up a pair of gloves.



Look at his brilliant short career as a reprieve from a miserable life.
2007-12-30 14:09:17 UTC
No it wouldn't matter bc he had to deal with the deaths of his trainers.
reddjoker1
2007-12-30 14:04:46 UTC
ITS A QUESTION U KNOW THE ANSWER TO ALREADY, YES HE WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF
Lily 2
2007-12-30 12:28:23 UTC
It would have been better had he stayed in school and got some special education.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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