Undefeated records...what do they mean to you?

Question

Undefeated records...what do they mean to you?

Answer 1

They (unbeaten records) mean nothing if the opponents are poor, but quality of opposition, even if there are losses on a fighters record means everything.

Answer 2

blogbaba sums it up. it all depends on quality of opposition.

Answer 3

Look Sean. You are biggest PBF fan I know. I know many have been harsh to Floyd, but so have many others too, have been harsh to Pacquiao. Both these guys have been criticized heavily by fans from opposing sides. Im a pacfan, but I tell you, despite me being harsh to PBF so many times already, I also feel upset when Floyd's skills and record gets criticized for the wrong reasons. I dont really pay much attention to what people have to say about his personality because he indeed is an ******, but he does charity, and to me that is always respectable. My reason for this is that I too ( we Pacfans too) get upset when Pacquiao gets criticized for the wrong reasons, and so definitely I feel somewhat the same for PBF at times. Now, Floyd's resume is really impressive. I am a pacfan but I will immediately dismiss all accusations about him not earning his undefeated record all the way to the top. When he fought Oscar, he fought him at 154, when he fought Hatton, Hatton was undefeated. This guy came from SUPERFEATHERWEIGHT all the way to 154. His style is gay? which many considers running? When he destroyed Gatti, that wasnt running, that was annihilation ( RIP Gatti ). He earned his record the hard way, getting criticized from the very beginning all the way to the top but despite the circumstances, he kept winning his fights. His undefeated record is legit. But you gotta admit though, by fighting Marquez he didnt do himself any good, and furthermore he came in 2 pounds over the agreed weight which is cheating Sean. BUT JMM still went on to fight, because 2 pounds dont really mean nothing Sean just as Cotto came in at 145, not 147, it dont mean nothing. Now Sean, all this bashing committed by both sides,( you and me), we dont really mean it. Its just our way of being loyal and patronizing our guy. We can be very bias and out of line sometimes but if you look at the bigger picture, what we are really just trying to say is that our fighter is better. Thats how you do it, and thats how we do it. Sean bro, you can easily accuse Pacquiao of draining Cotto 2 pounds below 147 as much as we can easily accuse PBF of cheating by weighing 2 pounds above the agreed weight of his JMM bout. The point being is, we are the same even if you think otherwise. Its just that in this case, you are far better knowledgeable in boxing than I can ever be. There are hardcore fans from both sides and we are no stranger to that. We have been witness to alot of unnecessary criticisms to both our guys, and at times have even participated in it. Many had even involved race.PBF has been called gay, has been called a pussy, but so has Pacquiao, he was even accused of avoiding black fighters, taking steroids and a lot more. Take a look at Americasfavoritethug's answer to this question

https://answersrip.com/question/index?qid=20091114083011AAmRAaH&show=7#profile-info-o6MxWdMTaa

Does that make it any less offensive when a nonblack calls a black guy the N word as a response to him being racially discriminated? Of course not Sean. Just as our criticisms towards floyd is not any less legit than your criticisms towards Pacquiao.

But Sean just this once, I will cease fire, and tell you that his record is phenomenal. It is as amazing as you say it is. PBF is a very skillful boxer, and he is better than Manny Pacquiao in alot of attributes. His style is nothing we have ever seen before. His style is unique and is the ultimate challenge for any boxer, because until someone beats his style, it will remain the winning style, despite what people may say about it. His style has matched counterpunchers, sluggers, technical fighters, southpaw, aggressive styles and a lot more. He's fought nearly all styles and remained unbeaten, but now he will face Manny's which is also very unique. If I should give a name to Manny's style, I would name it technical slugger, ( LOL ). If Manny or Mosely cannot beat Floyd, then only Floyd can beat Floyd. But anyway I might be leaving YA to focus more on my studies, thats why I say these things now without bias. I dont want to leave this site without a clear conscience. And I am sorry for calling you names before, even calling you racist, but you probably dont remember me saying it to you since you probably dont even remember the desperateboy who may only be just another senseless Pacfan in this forum to you. But anyway, more power to you and to all the people in this forum, and to knight, such a cool guy. God bless you all man.

Answer 4

Sean my fellow Mayweather friend lol. I have to be honest. When you are growing up undefeated records are so cool. You automatically think undefeated teams/players/boxers/etc are the best. But that most certainly is not the case. Perhaps even more so in boxing than anything else. In boxing you can pick and choose your opponents, the complete opposite of ever other sport. In football/baseball/basketball there is a strict schedule in which you have to face teams that rank very bad to very good. Boxing in the opposite. There is no strict schedule to follow. If you would like to, you could go through your entire career on the undercard of wednesday night fights making minimal funds but going 100-0 with 100 Kos. But will anybody remember you? No. Because although you may have "the best professional boxing record ever" you're still garbage. Skills never tested, will never streched, and tears never cried. Having an unblemished record does not automatically mean that you are the best. Some of the GREATEST boxers have multiple losses. (Ali, Robinson, Tyson, ETC.) Even the one WITH an undefeated record (Marciano) does not get alot of credit as much as these fighters. So in my mind an undefeated record is nice to have, but not nessesary to be a champion. Sean G, you know I love Mayweather just like you, and I hate when people accuse him of fighting nobodies because that is so not true. But Sean, its time for Floyd to step up and fight Pacquio. One of the all time great fighters to go down in boxing history.

Great question BTW

Answer 5

Undefeated doesn't mean too much to me - I don't like the baseball approach to boxing. Its not about numbers, watching a guy fight and basing it on who he fights, that is how I measure.



I don't think all that much of Marciano's record, he was impressive in the ring and he did have some big KO wins over skilled guys like Archie Moorer, Ezzard Charles and Joe Walcott. But had he had 6 more fights and happened to lose 1, I don't think he should be rated any lower than he is.



Mayweather is the same, you can tell watching him that he has terrific ability. I think most boxing fans problem with his is that it has become evident since his win of Gatti (in my opinion) that he is protecting that undefeated record. With 4 sanctionig bodies, I really don't put much stock in "world champion" status when it comes to the upper echelon. He has been right in the middle of the most stacked division in boxing and he has faced off against Gatti, Baldomir, Hatton, Marquez? Come on. You just can't defend that. Doesn't it say something when most educated fans point to the Corrlaes fight as Floyd's best performance? He fought great, but the reason why people point to it is because it was a huge risk/reward fight...that was like 10 years ago. If he were 38-2 and had fought Cotto, Williams, Mosely and Clottey, it would mean way more to me.



- Sean G, all true, but are you saying those were the best guys he could have fought? Gatti was clearly on his way out and the last world class guy he was in against was Oscar, and he was absolutley crushed. Pointing to another unbeaten streak with Baldomir is the same thing, who had he beaten, other than Zab Judah? Judah may have had all the physical gifts in the world, but he clearly was rungs below guys like Mosely, Cotto, Margarito, Williams and others who Mayweather could have taken on. And as far as Hatton and Marquez, for someone who called out Pac for manipulating weights to win fights, Hatton was fighting for the second time at 147, Maruquez was bigger than he had ever been and Floyd still came in over the limit. And still, are you saying Hatton and Marquez were the toughest available? Smaller, slower guys are ripe for a bigger defensive specialist...Floyd is no dummy, he knows he can beat.

Answer 6

Sure, being undefeated is great, as long as that undefeated record includes great fighters. Floyd is definitely better than Marciano, simply because Floyd has had a better competition than Rocky. Floyd has fought good fighters, but he didn't fight the best. When I criticize Floyd, I always take out the Corrales fight because that was the only time that Floyd actually stepped-up and risked his record for greater glory. That has never been repeated again, and that's what I want to see from Floyd to cement his boxing legacy. Sure he fought champions in Judah and Baldomir with 11 loses to bums, but can you actually say they were better than Cotto, Margarito, or Mosley? Hell NO. Floyd fought second tier fighters when he could have fought the best.



You say Floyd fought a better Hatton compared to Pacquiao simply because Hatton was undefeated when they fought. And because you fixate on that, you forget to consider that Hatton had to bloat himself up to Floyd's division whereas it was Pacquiao who stepped-up in weight to fight Hatton in his comfort weight. Clearly, you focus too much on the record. It cannot even be logically proven why you think a fighter is better when he is yet undefeated. Pacquiao was 8-0 when he suffered his first loss, so you think that Pacquiao now is worse than the Pacquiao of the Jr. flyweight days? Come on, think.



Lastly, your bias is so obvious towards Floyd. You do say that you criticize Marciano for fighting no-name and past-their prime fighters, but you do not acknowledge that Floyd fought good, but not elite fighters, at the elite level. Yes he fought 13 World Champions, but among those 13 who was the best champion he fought? It was a past-his-prime De La Hoya. Castillo, Corrales, and Gatti were good, but not at the elite level. Judah always loses when he stepped-up to the elite level, and Baldomir with 11 loses was just a plain bum who fought bums and got lucky to get a break.



Floyd is definitely great, no doubt, but you have to accept it, Floyd will never be considered as the greatest of this era unless he fights the best in his weight class. To be the best, you have to beat the best, and not just the runner ups.

Answer 7

it means they didnt fight the very best. as far as Rocky Marciano, he was a beloved champion that died at a relatively young age, therefore manypeople hesitate to criticize his record but there are many those that do, including myself.



i think you are just a Mayweather apologist. Hatton was never on anyone's P4P list as #2 except maybe in the UK.



Marquez was just too small and had fought only as high as 135lbs, and even that was pushing a bit. and although he was deserving of the #2 spot p4p, would you give Mayweather credit for fighting Ivan Calderon if he was ranked #2 p4p? my guess is you would.



after the 2nd JL Castillo fight, Floyd decided to become a great business man and not a great fighter and that is when he became the farce that he is today. he probably can beat all the best welterweights in the world, he has the talent to do so, but he has to take a chance and actually try it.

Answer 8

Here's my thoughts on this:



Brian Nielsen was 49-0 at one time in his career, but who did he fight to run up such an impressive record? Besides Tim Witherspoon and Carlos DeLeon (A champion at Cruiserweight), there wasn't anything special about his record and he proved it by losing to Dicky Ryan via 10th round TKO.



It all depends on the quality of opposition. Blogbaba said it best.

Answer 9

Hey my friend.



It really depends. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. is undefeated but he is not even in the top 10 best junior middleweight because of the level of competition he has faced.



Floyd is ofcourse a great fighter. There is nothing to deny that. The level of competition he has faced is also great. Pacquaio beat 23 World Champions from flyweight to welterweight, but of course the other champions he defeated at bantamweight is not considered that great of a competition compared to the fighters Pacqaui fought from Junior Featerweight, starting with Marco Antonio Barrera to Miguel Cotto at Welterweight.



Floyd Mayweather Jr. defeated a series of great fights and he has been once an underdog in the Las Vegas betting odds against Diego Corrales. But before or after that, he has always been the favorite to win. Even when he fought Oscar, he was 2-1 favorite. But Mayweather, as you said won against 13 World champions and is a 6 time champion in 5 different weight class. That is a great resume of course.



Rocky Marciano of course had a great outstanding career. Many people of course judge Marciano as overrated because he didnt face quality opposition. His defeat of Joe Louis gave him no credit to many fans because Joe Louis was very old at that period of the fight. Ofcourse Rocky Marciano was the first ever Heavyweight to retire undefeated and it meant something to the sport.



This is a close call on who's better, Marciano or Mayweather. It is very hard for me to rank Mayweather as high as many Mayweather fans have ranked him because he never fought Mosley, Margarito, or Cotto. But I am impressed with his lightweight and junior welterweight career.



As far as I am concerned undefeated meant nothing if you avoid the best fighters possible. I dont think Rocky Marciano had a lot of available fighters he could have fought at that period. Bit he did beat Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, and Jersey Joe Walcott. Mayweather's biggest victories were against Oscar de La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, and Diego Corrales.



At this period, and since I have known boxing, Mayweather is definitely the most criticized boxer in our generation. I think he can be greater than he is, and he is in a lose lose situation with Pacquaio. He should fight Mosley, Paul Williams, and other welterweights and junior middleweights before fighting Pacquaio, so he wont be in a lose lose situation.

Answer 10

The record of Floyd is incredible but records are useless if you do not bring your game to a higher level which means he should fight legitimate fighters and take the risk of fighting them. It doesn't matter if you're first one to beat an unbeaten fighter cause it is a ridiculous way to say that you are much better than the other cause you're the one who is the first who gave him a loss. Did you get it? I mean to be a greater fighter you need to take the risk and prove that you can defeat those threats. If Floyd wants to be a greater fighter then he should give the world an epic battle.

Answer 11

Hey, I feel the same way about Marciano, but he gets all the praise in the world.



Anyway,I feel that Floyd deserves more respect than he gets. Sure, he may be cocky and seem arrogant at times, but he tried the All-American good boy approach and it didn't get him the fights he wanted, you know when he was calling out Shane Mosley, Kostya Tszyu, and all other top fighters in his division and above his division. The record speaks for itself, he hasn't been beaten because he's that good. He hasn't ducked anyone and anytime he's stepped up and fought the guys that the public felt would beat him, he only got criticized afterwards. It's a disgusting thing to witness, but Mayweather will get into ring with Pacquiao and silence the critics once and for all....

Answer 12

Absolutely nothing, i can rack up 100-0 if i go and fight against kids... It's who you fight, if a boxer fights the best in his era and still has an undefeated record (which is almost impossible) then he's a great. Marciano evaded most of the good fighters in his era, like Liston and he mostly fought against washed-up boxers, no disrespect for Mayweather though, if he kicks Manny's *** then he's in my top ten list for sure...

Answer 13

Floyd will have to do much more if he wants to be compared with someone as great as Marciano. Like grab a pair of balls and stop ducking the best.

Answer 14

Undefeated.... It means that the boxer was carefully select your opponents, train yourself hard, learn the opponents style, Do enough to win, And win. Or summarize it; just win all the times.

It means allot but sometimes noting. Ricky Hatton was undefeated and May dominated him.

Answer 15

I don't believe Floyd has surpassed Rocky Marciano yet but he is on his way!